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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | I am considering Amsoil for my next oil change. Is there a procedure for cleaning the petroleum base oil from the engine?
Or, does it matter that there will be some residual dino oil in the system?
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND | No problem Bob...go ahead and do your oil change. What remains of the dino oil in your engine will blend with the new synthetic you add, which won't be a problem. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Just do a normal oil change. There will be very little of your old oil left in the system, and the Amsoil will blend with any other motor oil anyway.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Is it true that the vision came from the factory with Semi-synthetic oil? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Eden Prairie, MN | Victory is semi synthetic. It is the only oil Victory recommends using. It is not about branding, it is about 10's of 1000's of hours in the dyno's and 100's of thousands of miles on the road.
I understand customizing, but I don't understand messing with proven technology. I'll leave the experimenting to you guys. Let me know when you can prove you made the right decision. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I went with Mobil1 synthetic at 2500, its a waste of time in my opinion. At 5500 the shifting is getting notchy and noisy and there was no apreciable difference in motor temp. So my advice is run what you like but don't expect a big difference. I'm going to try the Amsoil at 6k which will be before weeks end to see how it holds up. But best I can tell you'll still be replacing oil at 2500-3000 intervals. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND | Teach, Did the Mobil 1 provide you with a noticeable difference in engine / transmission noise and shifting in the first 2500 miles of use? TIA John |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Thanks for your replies and opinions.
By the way ...... who supplies the oil that Polaris recommends? Last time I checked, they did not have a refinery. Just curious. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Im not a big fan of semi anything.. I say full or nothing. but here is something to maybe try and look into... Who makes the victory oil... its not victory as they dont own oil refineries.. Its just like HD oil, they don't make it. Someone else makes it for them. And in the case with the HD oil it is made from whoever gives the lowest bid to produce their oil. And whats bad about the Hd oil is…. For the price of what they charge per Qt, you can buy the very best oil out there.. I never priced Victory oil and I heard it was only a semi-synth. What does that stuff usually go for? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| FYI.....You can do a full synthetic change including oil filter for less than $20 on a Vision. Buy a gallon of Rotella T (blue jug) and a Super Tech ST7317 both at Wal Mart. The oil is $16 and change, the filter is $2.49. I changed to Rotella non synthetic at 500 miles, and full synthetic at 3,000 miles. My bike is much quieter, shifts perfectly, and I am sure most of that is just due to break in. Go ahead and spend twice as much on pricey oil and filters, but Rotella works great and costs half as much. The only problem I ever had with oil was when I used Amsoil in my 04' Kingpin. Made the clutch slip extremely bad. Others have had the same problem with Amsoil. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md | I thought the reason they use semi-synth (whichever brand, I doubt Victory's own is required) is that the same oil runs through the clutch. Using full synth in the clutch can result in early clutch failure, costing a bunch. Being so slippery, I've never changed to synthetic oil until at least 3000 - 5000 miles on any bike I've owned. Early use of "slippery" oil can allow oil blowing past the rings before break-in is complete, to negative effect. I was "taught" all of this by a moto-mech some years ago and can't personally claim any scientific knowledge, but it made sense to me the way he explained it. In Victory's case, with the same oil going through the clutch, it may have been prudent to go semi-synth no matter the real manufacturer. Just food for thought. Everyone who's been riding a while has their own methods, this has been mine and it has served me well, along with a reasonably hard and early break-in to seat those rings. YMMV. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | I now have 10k on the Vision and am getting ready for a 5k-6k road trip. Golfer, how often do you change the Wal-Mart oil. By the way....you need to look at my KPT setup (attached). |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Sorry Golfer, the pictures were too large. Had to resize. Here they are. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Golfer, still didn't work. PM me an email address and I will send them to you.
Bob |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Golfer, still didn't work. PM me an email address and I will send them to you.
Bob |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Flatsix (John), to answer your question, no. In all likelihood synthetic makes the engine noise a bit more noticeable or at least that has been my experience on all bikes. Shifting wasn't any smoother than with the Victory semi-syn oil.
Someone questioned the use of full synthetic for engines that share tranny and engine oil... It isn't an issue and it will not harm the clutch in any way. Think of marbles because thats what oil molecules are. In traditional dino oil the number of molecules are spread further apart (larger), as such they lubricate but as they come into contact with moving part they sheer reducing the roll or slip effect. Semi syn increases the number of molecules or rather packs them closer thus less sheer, and of course full syn increases even more, hence its claim to reduce wear even more. An added benefit of the more molecules is the protection against harmful corrosives that can't accumulate due to the increased molecule count. ALL molecules sheer regardless of type of oil, but with a full syn you have more unsheered than with dino at the same operating interval. Oil change requirements are based on the number of times the molecules can be sheered/broken down, before they can no longer provide adiquate protection/lubrication.
Someone mentioned the Rotella, good oil in any composition (dino, semi, full) but it won't last any longer than any other. Amsoil "claims" better performing, longer lasting protection. For a couple bucks more I'll give it a go next change to see if their is any merit to the claim. Bottom line is the manufacturer can recommend anything, but we all know when its time for an oil change as the bike lets us know through clunky or rougher shifting.
The ONLY advice I would give with regards to oil "choice" is to ALWAYS use an oil intended for use in a bike (no friction modifiers). Using oils designed for a modern cage will frick up the clutch in short order. Oil filters?? Well be very careful there as well. Yes, Walmart sells a filter that is dirt cheap, but that is what you are getting, cheap. There are a number of online sites that have cross sections and spec's on filters, the Walmart filters are really really cheap and won't filter very much before failure of the filter (paper). You can get the Bosch 3323 filter at any autoparts store for right around $6, its black and compared to the Victory filter I can't tell any difference (appears to be the same filter just rebadged).
If you like MOTORCYCLE BRANDED oils, the Honda Oils are the best I hav EVER used, and are priced very reasonable. They also do the jug thing which saves a few extra bucks. On a Suzi 1500 I owned I could get no more than 2200 miles between changes with all the oils I tried, until I tried the Honda oil. Average was 3300 between changes. I ride a bunch of miles each year and I don't want to make the oil companies any richer than I have to, so shop and find what works best for you and your bike. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| flint350 - 2008-07-08 9:41 AM
Being so slippery, I've never changed to synthetic oil until at least 3000 - 5000 miles on any bike I've owned. Early use of "slippery" oil can allow oil blowing past the rings before break-in is complete, to negative effect.
That is why I ran regular non synthetic Rotella from 500 miles to 3,000 miles, then switched to the full synthetic Rotella at 3,000 miles. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| visionbob - 2008-07-08 10:54 AM
I now have 10k on the Vision and am getting ready for a 5k-6k road trip. Golfer, how often do you change the Wal-Mart oil. By the way....you need to look at my KPT setup (attached).
Every 3,000...
erikkranz@yahoo.com |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Not on the Vision, but on my last bike I used the Shell Rotella T syn, (from WalMart), after the first 3000 miles without a problem.
I changed it every 3000, and it had 19,000 miles when sold and still purred like a kitten.
I'll more than likely use it on the Vision as well. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | flint350 - 2008-07-08 9:41 AM
I thought the reason they use semi-synth (whichever brand, I doubt Victory's own is required) is that the same oil runs through the clutch. Using full synth in the clutch can result in early clutch failure, costing a bunch. Being so slippery, I've never changed to synthetic oil until at least 3000 - 5000 miles on any bike I've owned. Early use of "slippery" oil can allow oil blowing past the rings before break-in is complete, to negative effect. I was "taught" all of this by a moto-mech some years ago and can't personally claim any scientific knowledge, but it made sense to me the way he explained it. In Victory's case, with the same oil going through the clutch, it may have been prudent to go semi-synth no matter the real manufacturer. Just food for thought. Everyone who's been riding a while has their own methods, this has been mine and it has served me well, along with a reasonably hard and early break-in to seat those rings. YMMV.
http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articl...
http://www.amsoil.com/faqs/faq1.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Eyota, MN | I used Amsoil 20w-50 motorcycle oil in my 2004 Kingpin from 5000 miles up to 33500 miles when I sold it and it ran perfectly, never had a problem with it. It ran a little quieter and shifted awesome. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Joe H - 2008-07-08 6:35 PM
I used Amsoil 20w-50 motorcycle oil in my 2004 Kingpin from 5000 miles up to 33500 miles when I sold it and it ran perfectly, never had a problem with it. It ran a little quieter and shifted awesome.
I was wondering if the victorys that had problems with amsoil and clutch useage were using the amsoil motor oil and NOT motorcycle oil?
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
Denver | I use the Mobile 1 V Twin oil. In all of my Goldwings (several hundred thousand combined miles) I used the Mobile 1 15 - 50. It used to be referred to as the Gold cap. Never a problem. On my vision I started using the full synthetic at the 500 mile change and have never looked back. There is some thoughts that one must wait a certain amount of miles before switching... BS.. Your engine doesn't know the difference between 500 miles and 4k. That goes back to some old school thinking. Most new vehicles come with synthetic now days from the factory. The main reason motorcycles do not is because of the cost and the frequent oil changes. On my wings I always waited 5k between changes, and truly never had a problem.
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html#OilFilters
Willy |
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
Denver | Sorry I meant to put these links here also...
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm
http://amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_V-Twin_20...
Willy
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I thought I'd update what I found when I replaced the oil today. I was running the mobil1 synthetic MC specific oil 20/50. It was completely black and rather sludgie. Since I still had the Victory oil in a container waiting to go to the recycler I compared the two (just a finger test). The Victory Semi-Syn felt smoother and had less discoloration than the Mobil1.
I replaced the Mobil1 with Amsoil and I'll post as to my experience with it as the miles get ridden. This much I can say about Mobil, it is about as effective as the Victory oil for the SAME mileage interval and I wouldn't recommend exending the change interval beyond 2500 if you are using it. If you do decide to run it over 2500 expect your gear box to get notchy & noisy at around 2700-3000 miles.
Just so the record is straight I am using the Bosch 3323 HiP oil filter which I did note is slightly different than the Polaris filter in the circulating holes (diameter on each hole is about half the size). So I may look for an alternative filter with less restrictive flow. |
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Changing to Synthetic
