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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | Arkainzeye - 2013-06-17 7:20 PM
im curious, you said it is NOT rpm based. but IS speed based.. well the clutches spin with the rpm's of the motor so...
let me ask you this... if you are drifting in a parkinglot at slow speed and you hold the clutch all the way in , what happens?
Yes the clutch spins, but it has to engage the transmission and the issue is in that friction zone when the clutch is partially engaged. From a dead stop to creeping, the speed of the bike is what changes the "frequency" of the surging. I can change engine RPM from just off-idle to 3k and the frequency will not change, until speed changes. I'll say again, I'm not a wrench but I have been troubleshooting stuff my entire life and it's not on the "engine" side, it has to be on the "transmission" side...
By drifting, I assume you mean coasting with the clutch pulled in- smooth as glass. Clutch fully engaged (all the way out) no slipping and again smooth (assuming speed high enough to not stall or lug the engine).
/r
Allen
Edited by Allen_B 2013-06-17 7:23 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Arkainzeye - 2013-06-17 6:20 PM
im curious, you said it is NOT rpm based. but IS speed based.. well the clutches spin with the rpm's of the motor so...
let me ask you this... if you are drifting in a parkinglot at slow speed and you hold the clutch all the way in , what happens?
Mmm, bike begins to slow down because there's no clutch engagement !
Again, I know this issue, many people have reported it. In the case of the person I reference earlier, they actually found the the improperly installed piece (it was in backwards). I'm guessing some newbie at the factory didn't realize that a piece was sensitive to direction, and installed them over a long period of time, backwards. Who knows, he may still be there on the line, not paying attention to which direction one of the plates (judder?, something else?) is installed. It makes a difference, and will cause the surge. It's the EXACT same concept as a warped disk brake rotor, if anyone has ever felt that when coming to a stop. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 30
Leighton, IA | Just another example of Victory quality control or, more accurately, a lack thereof. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Ok, I misunderstood when you said it was actually happening. I thought you were talking about after the clutch was fully engaged. If it's doing this when your slipping the clutch for slow speed creeping then it definitely sounds like you have a warped pressure plate or the pressure plate spring is in backwards. More than likely the first and they can machine it down a hair to flatten it back out or if it still under warranty they should repalce it. Now you might have a hard time convincing them on replacing it under warranty as defective as they could say that you might have overheated it slipping it too much. Believe me, I have heard this one before at a Kawasaki dealership! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I can live with the shudder in mine; it only does it first thing in the morning when the engine is cold. Goes away after it warms up.
I'll replace my own clutch if there ever comes a time. After a short talk with my dealer last weekend; whom said you do not need to pre-oil the dry Victory performance air filter (...though the enclosed instructions recommend that you should use the Victory air filter recharge kit -meaning- filter oil) I will elect to not ever have him work on my Vision.
If they can't get an performance air filter correctly defined; I highly doubt they'd know how to reassemble the clutch plates. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | Will stop back into the dealership tomorrow to pres the issue. I initially reported this at roughly 100 miles (1st day of ownership); their advice was that is was normal and would subside with break-in. This was the second indicator that they were questionable and 1600 miles ago...
In the interim and just in case, can anyone sugest a competent dealer in the Northeast (CT) area?
/r
Allen |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Allen_B - 2013-06-18 5:40 PM
In the interim and just in case, can anyone sugest a competent dealer in the Northeast (CT) area?
/r
Allen
How far are you from Pine Bush, New York (Lloydz)? Couple of hours?
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | rdbudd - 2013-06-18 7:19 PM
How far are you from Pine Bush, New York (Lloydz)? Couple of hours?
Ronnie
Yup, well within a day drip but closer to Kyle at KMC Powersports in Westerly RI. Heading to KMC for work on my bike whenever he can actually get the new pipes (backordered)... 
My issue is I am actually trying to figure out above is a shop for warranty work- i.e. fixing the clutch problem!
/r
Allen |
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New user
Posts: 4
| Don't know what you found out, but with my new 2013 vision I noticed something slightly odd and somewhat similar on first leaving my driveway.
I let it warm a bit and back out of garage. I have to make an immediate hard full right turn at extremely slow (duck walk) speed so I ease out the clutch and notice a very slight surging sensation. I have attributed it to the round bars of the belt pressing on the groves. This is the only time I notice this. checked the belt and everything seems fine so I am not worried about it. I am also thinking this is what creates the slight shudder under moderate acceleration on the road through the gears. Love the bike but not quite as smooth as my other belt driven bikes until in cruise mode. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | Resurrecting this thread to update... Nothing from the dealership/shop last time it was in other than Victory said the symptoms are "normal" so basically their response was "shut up and color". Haven't had the opportunity to get to KMC or any mods done.
I will say that the dealership was pretty supportive and offered to do whatever they could, including the opportunity to ride another brand-new Vision when they got one to compare symptoms. Following that interaction and in the ensuing weeks, I didn't have much riding time but I finally took the Vision to work last week (Wednesday). On the way to work on I-95, a car started to drift into my lane so I quickly roll into the throttle to open a little distance. RPMs race and the gear indicator drops to "5" from "6". That's damn peculiar... Try this a few more times with the same results...
Get close to work and off of I-95 for some more controlled testing. 3rd gear and 30 MPH throttle roll-on; same indications. Engine RPMs race and the gear indicator drops (from "3" to "2" in this case) so the clutch is now slipping and badly.
Took the bike back to the shop that day and noted it had 2,850 miles on the odometer. The dealership is fighting with Vic/Polaris now but I believe they have ordered a complete clutch. No idea when I'll get the bike back but the feedback I have from the service department is that Polaris has been tough to deal with in every instance they have ever had with them. I will take that with a grain of salt but the shop does seem to be working to get me back on the road so it checks so far.
More to follow, hopefully soon. Good thing I wasn't planning to head to Sturgis this year... :-(
/r
Allen |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | ^^^ Minor edit, that should read 2,085 miles. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Well that is all not good Allen B... hope you get it sorted out with the dealers help. I'd be livid if my new Vision was doing that. And I'm a little wary about Victory not dealing with warranty issues in a more "dealer friendly" manner.... why so may of us just do our own work ourselves these days.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | I am beginning to think I may have initially misread my dealership...
They admittedly have very little experience working on Victorys, but they seem to give a crap and that means more to me in the long run. A competent tech can follow the service manual and get it right but it is hard to find a shop that is willing to take care of you. Will see how this plays out but the pushback seems to be all from Polaris at this point.
Jury is out and will report back when the verdict comes in...
/r
Allen
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Allen_B - 2013-07-29 8:00 PM
I am beginning to think I may have initially misread my dealership...
They admittedly have very little experience working on Victorys, but they seem to give a crap and that means more to me in the long run. A competent tech can follow the service manual and get it right but it is hard to find a shop that is willing to take care of you. Will see how this plays out but the pushback seems to be all from Polaris at this point.
Jury is out and will report back when the verdict comes in...
/r
Allen
this is why i wish victory made dealers go through some type of training program like Harley does..... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | I now have 5600 miles on my 2013. I never experienced anything close to the issue that you are experiencing. |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | You may want to try a Barnett clutch from Lloydz. I'm loving mine, and it was far less expensive than the factory replacement! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | Typing this, astounded with my dealership...
For the record, the dealership in question is Motorsports Nation in Waterford CT. A little confusion at times because the original (and still in business) Motorsports Nation in CT is in Plainfield but they don't carry Victory- only the Waterford store. Same company apparently but run by separate folks...
Anyway, picked up my bike this evening. Yes it is fixed and it has a new entire clutch assembly. I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with them by airing anything told in confidence, but there seems to have been more pushback by VIC on the repairs but the dealership proceeded with repairs regardless. It also sounds like VIC was trying to blame Mobil 1 oil for the failure, eventhough the problems presented at less than 100 miles. The MoCo blaming oil that doesn't say Polaris on it; who would have thunk? Interesting that it seems they couldn't order individual clutch components- they had to order the entire clutch as an assembly. I'm not complaining especially since it looks like a simpler and cheaper repair sown the road but found it odd nonetheless.
Anyway, I would recommend Motorsports Nation to anyone based on my most recent experience. I really like my VV it just seems they (Victory) still have a lot to learn from "other" motor company about support after the sale and with training and support of their dealer network.
I will have the chance to take her to work tomorrow AM and will be able to confirm if the original surging symptom is gone or is "normal" for this bike and a brand new clutch. I can say that from the initial parking lot maneuvers it seems to be fixed!
/r
Allen |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Glad to hear the dealer took care of you!
Edited by baadawg 2013-07-30 8:39 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | After a ride to work and back, I can say that all is fixed.
The original surge issue is gone but I will monitor to see if it resurfaces for some reason. In full disclosure, I can detect a VERY faint surge under the same conditions as I originally observed BUT it is so faint that it would not be noticable unless you had experienced the original issue.
All good and relieved!
/r
Allen |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | glad they fixed it for you! i almost wish victory would have "officially" blamed mobil1... i can see it now... seriously doubt mobil would stay for another company slamming their name / product. Victory would spend more $$$ trying to prove it than what the repair would have ever cost them.... |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | This reminds of the issue we had with the gas caps, way back when. "We were filling up the gas too fast", until they replaced the gas cap, and it was ok. "And now, ladies and gentlemen, here's your 2014 Indian", from the same folks that brought you a weak gas filler neck, bad gas cap, saddle bags that don't close flush one side, etc. And prepare yourself for the fight to get warranty work done, 'cause everything you that think is wrong, is either your fault, or normal. Is that why Dealers are breaking down Polaris' door to carry either Victory or Indian? Love the machine, just not the Service from the Company. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Carrollton, TX | My 2013 does the same thing. I attribute it to the Idle Air Control trying to hold the elevated cold idle speed |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | NoMoHD - 2013-08-06 3:19 PM
My 2013 does the same thing. I attribute it to the Idle Air Control trying to hold the elevated cold idle speed
Then we are talking about a different issue. The surging I was experiencing was not RPM dependent- it was speed dependent. Engine speed (and thus IAC or fuel management) did not have an affect.
I hate to say this but the original issue seems to be re-surfacing. For the true mech-heads who are far more familiar with the clutch, is it possible to have something warped or off that would contribute to this? I ask being COMPLETELY ignorant of the clutch in the Vision and being many things but a mechanic not being one of them. Based on the symptoms, I would have to point toward the transmission end vice the flywheel end since engine RPMs are irrelevant; this is speed (tranny) dependent.
/r
Allen |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
| Hi folks, I'm a newbee to the forum and absolutely love all the info in here. I have a 2011 Vision with 15000 miles and it exhibits the exact same surging as many describe in this thread. It is annoying but only happens to me on the 1st pull away in 1st gear when cold, thereafter clutch is perfectly fine  |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Dallas, NC United States | Same here 2013 with 800 miles on it. When I first start it up and just start to "duck walk" the bike to turn around the surging will start. Idle at 1000-1500 rpms but it is noticeable. Till I get to the end of my driveway its gone.
Going to ask my dealer about it, beings its still under warranty.  |
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New Vision, clutch surge?
