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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Chicago | Morning everyone, I recently installed a power commander and Autotune and have some word of thought on this. Don't be intimidated by the install it is really straight forward and fairly easy. The red lock clips on the injectors are easy to access with a long skinny screwdriver and you can get your hands in there to squeeze the connecter and take it off, I recommend you cut the wire ties and replace them, it gives a bit more room to work. That is the hardest part of it the rest is plug and play and set up is easy with a lap top. I do not know what, if any, gains I made or even if I lost power but what I can say is the bike runs much smoother, power delivery is better, and the overall performance seems much better. After the install I put 500 miles on the bike and went into the Power commander and re set the values and the bike only got better. Now I installed a LLOYDS timing wheel and set it at 4 degree advance, WOW for 162.00 total and about 20 minutes of my time, you can feel the increase in the seat of your pants. So far I have about 1.5 hrs into time installing these items and they have made a wonderful bike even better, next will be a 1/4 turn throttle and my winter project are a set of cams. NOTE before accepting the new trim factors My fuel milage was at 37.9 avg, (per calculation not by the dash output) I am now up at 43 avg. So milage has not been an issue. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | What values did you use for your AFR table? Where did you get them? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Chicago | At the 2 level 0 the 5% 13 in the mid range 13.6-13.8 (best gas mileage ) at the top end 13.2 this was all preset in the power commander when I received it. I have made arrangements to Dyno it right after July 4, to even better it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Interesting. I got my PCV installed and dyno tuned. I since changed several things and I installed the auto tune since I'm nowhere near a dyno tuner anymore.
My AFR map was all zeros so I called DynoJet and they suggested filling all the cells with 13.8 and go from there. That seemed pretty lame to me so I got help from Rylan with a suggested AFR map to start with. It still puzzles me how anyone would know that the AFR values they're using are correct for each bike. Since the auto tune only works off your AFR numbers and adds or removes fuel based on what that number in each box is, what if yours aren't really correct for your bike? You're using 13-13.8 range, I'm using 14.0-13.0 ranges. I'm sure I over complicate it but reading MANY forums about the auto tune, it always sounded like you just install it and let it start tuning. I found out that's entirely not true, it'll only tune based on the numbers in each cell of that AFR map so who knows what those numbers should actually be for each bike, climate, altitude, etc. I guess if the bike feels like it's running good and fuel economy is acceptable, you must have a decent AFR table.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I'm just bringing this up because you said you're going to have yours Dyno'd in a week or so. That will definitely give you a new baseline map for that given day, temp, etc., supposedly a perfectly tuned machine when you leave. So now you ride away from the dyno shop w/o changing any values in your AFR map and auto tune begins to do all the fuel trim plus and minuses. If you accept these changes, it now changes that new map you just paid good money to get. If you don't accept any changes, there's really no need for the auto tune at all. I just started accepted my trims after a few hundred miles and I guess it'll be "seat of the pants" and fuel mileage that I'll decide whether my AFR numbers need to be messed with. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Chicago | Okie what you have said is very true, what the DYNO will give you is a closer AFR table to work with and than you can maximise your setting by accepting any changes recommended by the trim table. In my opinion this could be accomplished by going over several differant maps and looking at the fuel settings in each cell and than setting yours to these settings, but that could takes hours upon hours to complete. A DYNO will accomplish this in a few runs by logging in your AFR at the exhaust and seeing your power curve. and you could adjust accordingly, Now for the effects of the AUTOTUNE after having a map that is almost perfect for your bike it will just enhance it by suggesting settings in each cell that would optimise performance and fuel ecomony in a real world application and not in the controlled enviroment like on a dyno. These changes and the ability to make them opens another can of worms such as humidity, air quality, altitude ect.. and to be honest you would have to accept changes on a daily basis to optimise the results of the AUTOTUNE. All that said I find it fun to play with and adjust and that is why I have it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | well, we just rode about 800 miles this past weekend and I had plenty of opportunity to mess with it. I loaded one of the AFR tables from DynoJet and instantly my idle smoothed the second I sent the table. I like messing with it too and I spent some time on the phone awhile back with Matt from DynoJet tech support and got more comfortable with it. I also got a toggle switch to hook to the PCV so I can toggle between a constant MPG map or flip the toggle and run the auto tune. Thanks for checking back in! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | I just installed the auto tuneate late night. I have had no chance to mess with it other than enabling auto tune. My question I have been dying to ask I'd
. When you ride for a while and get it up through all the gears and rpm ranges, How do you save what it corrected. My MAIN concern is this..... if I do all that riding. Should I leave the bike running and go grab my laptop and save it before I turn the bike off?? I didn't know if once you turn your scooter off before saving what it has done, if you would loose all of it "work"???? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | You will not not lose your settings when you turn the bike off. They will stay in the the 'trim' table until you either accept them or erase them.
A quick lesson on the Autotune and PCV and Dynotuning,
The fuel map on the PVC takes the signal sent by the bikes ECU and modifies the fuel amount based on the numbers entered into each cell, either adding or subtracting. When you Dynotune a bike, your are watching those numbers under a load to see what fuel map numbers gives the most power. Once you have a number that gives the most power, you look and see what the corresponding AFR is for that number. Theoretically, your bike should alway give the most power when at that AFR. It may take more or less fuel, depending on the riding conditions that day to get to that AFR..
By taking the ideal AFRs based on the dyno'd fuel map, you can then build an AFR table that the Autotune can use to adjust the fuel map with during the ride. Usually the Dyno tech will lean out the AFRs in the cruising cells to help with gas mileage, but it is important not to go too lean, the throttle response will suffer and you may cause engine damage.
The Autotune will start with the base fuel map, compare the actual AFR generated with the desired AFR and adjust the fuel accordingly. it will save that adjustment in the trim table. It does not adjust immediately. You need to stay within that given cell for about 15 seconds for it to determine what adjustments need to be made to meet that AFR value.
When you've completed your ride, you can review the trim table and decide whether to keep or disregard those new numbers. If the ride you did represents your normal riding pattern, then you may want to keep them so that the Autotune won't have to wait the 15 seconds the next time to know the correct fuel amount. If that ride was out the normal, you probably will want to keep your base map unchanged.
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Nozzledog, thank you so very very much !! Not only did i finally get the answer i was looking for... But you provided me with Extra info that i found completely beneficial for me to get "Tuned" quicker with less headache... once again thank you ! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Chris,
Where did you purchase your Auto Tune from? When you hooked up the laptop, did you have a AFR table already pre loaded? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | okie vision.. im not sure if anyone else on here is ALSO named chris.. but i am as well... so for ME i got my auto tune from http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=...
also i would like to add a few things.. TODAY was my first day using the auto tune. i loved how it made by bike feel.. but thats not why im writting this.. a few things happened when i got home.. all because i am a auto tune virgin... 1) i erased everything it learned.. 2) i was playing around like i knew what i was doing and ERASED my target AFR... and then i NOTICED THIS........... i have the auto tune AT-300 but i was treating it like a (1 o2 sensor model) as i didnt tell the auto tune to USED BOTH SENSORS.... so all the time today it was only using 1 sensor.... ok so i lost the AFR... now .. since i have the s1l1 mufflers and the performance air filter and the ness top filter... All i did to GET MY AFR BACK was (reinstall the base map..) the original you would install when you get your PC5 in the first place.. i verified this by going into the target AFR and here it was.. it was all back again.. so now i know... 1) if you have a 2 O2 setup like the at-300 it doesnt instantly turn the auto tune on.. and it does Not instantly turn BOTH o2 sensors on either... i did have a holy $hit moment when i saw all my targeted AFR was ZERO.... but like i said.. reload the base map that you choose that is closest to your set up and you will Not need to type in every single afr for every single cell.... if i had to do that.. i might have to punch myself in the face..... lol |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | lol, you're the Chris I was asking.
If you're using a base map from the DynoJet site with comparable mods as you have, yes, they all have the associated AFR table.
Matter of fact, no matter what base map you get from DynoJet for our Victories, they all have the same AFR table numbers.
one other thing I learned from this install. I discovered my auto tune came unplugged from the PCV, happened twice (shame on me). even though they seem to "click" into place, mine popped out.
I used some silicone to wipe around the connectors so they can't fall out again.
Edited by okie vision 2014-07-31 7:03 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | thanks for sharing your experiences. i will keep a eye open for that.. i kinda feel like a dumb ass for not noticing last night that i only had 1 of the 02 sensors activated in the menu of the software.. oh well its not like i have any experience with this before... it was nice to quickly be able to get all the Targeted AFR's back in a few clicks... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1228
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The easiest way to tell, is that you should be seeing trim numbers in two trim tables - Front and back cylinders. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i went for a ride two days ago and accidentally erased everything it learned.. but then discovered i only had 1 o2 sensor turned on anyways.. so i then activated BOTH o2 sensors and the next day, rode to work and took the long way back.. i can say this.. the 1st day i rode with only 1 o2 sensor i thought it felt great. the next day i rode with BOTH auto tune sensors turned on, it was Really nice ! i was able to get home and save the trims.. i noticed front and rear trims were different... also noticed it DECREASED fuel in alot of the 3000+ rpm areas, and Added fuel in the 2000+ area.. i didnt study it closely.. i just noticed a lot of Big decreased and a good amount of small increases.. one thing i REALLY noticed was this.... of 2 visions i have own with the same light weight mods.. i never had the pulling power in 6th gear that i do now.... i can imagine has it learned more and more from taking longer rides... |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| have been looking for a cheap laptop so I can have it just for the PCV
Hate to use home one and loose all the programs for the PCV |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | johnnyvision when i would go for a ride and come back home , and even turn the bike off. when i turned it back on to connect my home laptop.. i didnt loose anything.. and actually one time i forgot to save the settings for 2-3 days and they were still there for me to "save the trims" . i thought i would need to do the same thing you are asking about.. but you dont.. i just recently went on a 219 mile ride and once i got home.. i just plugged in my laptop 2 hours after being home and saw the new trims and saved them as well.... power commander said you really only need to do this 2-3 times.. going on a long ride and going on the highway.. then back roads and even trying to catch up to sports bikes , allowed the auto tune to see many different cirucmstances and adjust for it.. |
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Powercommander W/Autotune
