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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Manufacturers do not pay for mechanics to go on fishing trips. This means that if a definite problem is not found. the customer is the one that has to pay. Glazed clutches a not a defect. The simple fact that changing the oil fixes the problem tells me that the spring has sufficient clamping force.
Since you so love using search engines to help bolster your half baked efforts of being an Internet bully. You might want to read through some other motorcycle forums. You will find that the oil debate rages everywhere that you find a wet clutch. You will also find that there are people that have had slippage issues with full synth oils. It is not just Victory.
Still trying to figure out a couple things about your last post
1] Where can I find a 98 Victory. Man that thing would sure be valuable. #1 is a 99, and though manufactured on July 4th 98 it does not change that fact
2] What the hell does a bad shift drum support have to do with a problem caused by using an oil that is not specified for a Victory. There is nothing to investigate. If you are going to bring something up; please keep it relevant.....OK
As for my thin skin. This is not the first time you have challenged my veracity, and while some may lay down to your BS...I ain't that guy
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New user
Posts: 4
| Gotta love the "net"
Only Extra virgin olive oil for mine.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 212
Tavares, Fl | $600 in parts???? I changed my own clutch in the 2001 Venture at 58000 miles. Took about an hour and under $200 in clutches and disks... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | rlreed - 2009-04-25 12:53 PM
$600 in parts???? I changed my own clutch in the 2001 Venture at 58000 miles. Took about an hour and under $200 in clutches and disks...
For just the steels, and fibers you can get a Barnett kit on the web for under $200. Add the new spring, and billet plate for another $150.
Vic sells every part as seperate, and the price is CRAZY high. Then again my 850lb TC with 106HP\101FtLb has almost 100k on it at this point with the original clutch. The first 60K were VERY hard on it |
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Cruiser
Posts: 115
Columbus, Ga | I am not an oil expert by any means but have been following this thread very closely and researching on the web to find out what I am going to do at my next oil change. My findings have been that across many motorcycle forums some bikes clutches have started slipping after swapping to full syn oil. They have also started working properly just by changing back. Some bikes never experience any problems with full syn. The thing that seems to be the common denomenator seems to not be dino or syn but the additives in the oil in particular how much "Moly" is in the oil as wet clutches don't seem to like higher levels of it. Oil companies apparently reformulate thier oil quite often and they are uncommunicated changes and end users really never ever know the change in additives that they use. It also appears that most syn oil manufactures seem to have recently reduced the amount of moly in thier MC oils. I believe this moly thing could be at the heart of this issue. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | There you go bringing Molly into this, poor girl, she got pick in on in school for not being too slick, now she's getting it for being slick, sheeesh. I thought we beat this horse to death already, and without mentioning any names, don't let the other one bother you with any comments, it will never die. This is destined to be the number two post behind the motivational posters. I see eagle has brought out a factor that has been loosley alluded too; additives. So it is not the oil, dino, half, or full syn, or even the brand, it is the additional additives. In playing detective one must find all variables to make an education assumption and not go with a blanket assessment. A common thread is that if you use Victory oil it is the recommended oil, just as ford, chevy, harley, honda, etc. But the book says to use X type with an approved rating. If you use X with the approved rating, then where is the argument? If you use X and there is a varible outside the parameters along with x and something goes wrong, x is not the blame, the unacceptable variable is.
I expect the Victory wrench to say use Victory, why? It takes out the variables and it has proven to be such, I cannot and will not dispute that. However, time also proves to me if someone uses a full syn for the life of the bike, to 200K without problems, then I have a tendency to follow along with that, having proven itself. I've even talked with other reputable wrenches as well as the one I'll take my bike to, and they all say the same thing, it is okay to use full synthetic. One thing that these wrenches will not do is get tied up in forum debates as it leads to pure 100% fruitless banter. The novice reader right now is so confused that he'll probably sell his or her bike and say forget it because if he/she does the slightest thing wrong he/she'll have to pay out the nose. I respect my tech when he laughs when I say, "I read such and such on the forum." as 90% of the time he can give me hard evidence that what was said is a crock and has no value. None of these posts has swayed me to drain my oil and put something else than what I've got waiting in the wing to put in there as I'm not convinced that my bike will go teets up and die if I do. I've ran nearly 40K at this time mostly with the dreaded and evil AMSOIL and I have zero clutch slippage, well, beyond the normal friction zone. I was told if something breaks on my bike, as long as I have oil in the bike it will still be covered. Sure, clutches are wear items and it is one of those things that a burden of proof has to be on the user to say that nothing they did caused the premature failure. And I don't know if there ever has been a clutch changed under warranty, though I'm sure there has been. But who is to say that the rider didn't ride the clutch and cause failure or other blah, blah factors. Sure, I know I've come back around full circle to A) Clutch slips, uses full syn, B) Clutch doesn't slip using 50/50, but I still need to know a lot more, because I use A) Full Syn, clutch does not slip nor does bike chatter, or B) Uses 50/50, clutch doesn't slip and I have chatter, chatter. Which do I want to use today? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| KevinX, you know bud I wrote up a real nice rebutal but I decided to not post it. Since YOU will never wrench on my bike, it matters not, and I come here not to argue with folks.
I will add if the BEST you can do in an attempt to discredit me is to try to argue model year verses date stamp, then you're still wet behind the ears. Ride safe... T |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators |
Never mind...Your just to easy,
BTW search engine boy. I'm still waiting on that latch plate spec
Edited by kevinx 2009-04-25 10:14 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Kevinx are you really sure you wanna go down this road with me? I have refrained from insult you, but if you'd really like to.
You must be confused with your second request, and childish name calling. Perhaps if you went back and looked to see who made reference to latch plate specs you could direct that appropriately?
So I take it from your last reply you got nothing except what you've produced to date, your opinion? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Kevin, for the record you said "Vic sells every part as seperate, and the price is CRAZY high."
This statement isn't TRUE either. They do sell the clutch as a complete assy part number 13227632.
Of course I wouldn't expct you to know this since all you do is change oil.
Edited by Teach 2009-04-25 10:47 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 137
Houston, Texas | Boys, this isn't the Junior Olympics........take off the gloves and lets see some BLOOD.
Edited by STARSHIP 1 2009-04-25 11:36 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Teach - 2009-04-25 10:46 PM
Kevin, for the record you said "Vic sells every part as seperate, and the price is CRAZY high."
This statement isn't TRUE either. They do sell the clutch as a complete assy part number 13227632.
Of course I wouldn't expct you to know this since all you do is change oil.
From an earlier post
Now as the customer you would be left to make a decision....
Change the fibers, and sand down the steels....$375 in parts
Change the fibers, and steels.....$600 in parts
Install clutch assy......$700 in parts
Install Barnett clutch kit $350 in parts
Put it all back together with the oil I recommended in the first place
So yes I do know that an assembly is sold. My response was to a question about steels, and fibers. If you are going to attempt to through around insults of your own. You are going to need to do much better. Learning to read entire posts would be a great place to start.
Don't know how good you are at your job, but I am outstanding at mine. I get bikes from all across the south to straighten out when others have thrown up their hands in defeat. I build motors for people all across the country. I give technical support to dozens of individuals, and shops a week. I have published articles on engine modifications, and tuning. I have built bikes that have been in magazines, Spent 20 years as an ASE master tech, worked with a TA\D team that took back to back to back national championships, worked in tech services for a major auto manufacturer, and owned then sold a highly successful auto repair shop. This is my provenance; whats yours????
Now to go back to the latch plate. You called me a liar in your passive aggressive way in another thread when I stated that tag location is mandated by Fed law. After a 5 minute look at the CFA you said there was no such regulation. Since virtually every piece of a motor vehicle has to be certified. I simply offered to buy you a steak dinner if you could find the minimum spec on a latch plate. The spec is out there, but you however have not even bothered to reply.
I'm not sure what world you live in, but so far in this world you have come across as nothing but an ass.
Edited by kevinx 2009-04-26 6:12 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Wow! I have not visited this site for quite some time and look at what I have been missing. I know it's none of my business but it seems to me this fight is going nowhere. Put down your guns guys and just agree to disagree, it's ok we don't all have to believe the same thing.  As for me I've ran Vic 20-40, Amsoil 10-40, and Amsoil 20-50. I like Amsoil 20-50 the best and change oil every 3000 miles in the Vision and Kingpin. I say each to their own as we are all entitled to our opinion.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 87
Lusby,Md | so I run Royal Purple auto oil and it works just fine,no clutch slipage!I,ve always used auto oil and syn. oil with no problem. Maybe you dont know how to use a clutch. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Not to fan or fuel the fire already burning but my AMSOIL dealer whispered to the the other day "Have you heard about Royal Purple, they are taking it off the market. It is ruining engines left and right." I just laughed and said "oh yeah." My guess is that it will still be on the market 20 years from now just as slick50 and all the other stuff out there today... |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | OK gentlemen, time to let tempers cool. We'll have no more name calling or insults. Next step is to freeze the thread.
We're all here for information. Let's agree to disagree and let everyone take the info and draw their own conclusions. |
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Tourer
Posts: 319
| Any 20w50 oil will work fine in the Vision........however if Vic oil works best in the Freedom V-twin........Lets see some documentation to support this claim................Case closed. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| KevinX, bud don't know what your issue is and frankly don't care. You said in another thread Fl had adopted a new law and it was supported by Fed law. Well nope it isn't and the regulations is CFR for future reference. Now if putting out GOOD information hurts your feelings you better yell ouch because if you post bad info AND I know better I will say so. I would EXPECT you to do the same. That is NOT questioning anyones credentials, thats addressing an error. I did not return to that post as it wasn't something I was interesting in returning to. It had zero to do with a question you might have asked in an attempt to challenge me. In fact I find it rather humorous that you feel raising a NEW question somehow invalidates the fact you were wrong about the plate. We all make mistakes sometimes. As to latch plate spec's? I suggest you look it up if its applicable to you, it is not something I have a need to look into.
You hold a position of influence due to your occupation, so people will follow your advice. When you claim this oil is best, you have a responsibility to back it up. 20 years experience as a mechanic isn't backing it up, give some spec's, facts, etc.... You know what my CR500 clutch was slipping and I changed oil after adding 3 teaspoons of MMO one time. Worked great for a while. Replacing the clutch worked better and was permanent fix.
I been riding, racing and fixing bikes for on 40 years, that doesn't make me anymore right all the time as it does you, get over it. I disagree with you, Victory oil isn't the best oil to run. Changing oil is NOT a fix for a slipping clutch. Thats MY experience and opinion, you have yours. But you need to refrain from these pissing contests. It distracts from the intent of the post.
Oh and nice hussle on the clutch prices, but folks can see for themselves, lol.... You ride safe Kev.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Teach - 2009-04-27 3:31 PM
KevinX, bud don't know what your issue is and frankly don't care. You said in another thread Fl had adopted a new law and it was supported by Fed law. Well nope it isn't and the regulations is CFR for future reference. Now if putting out GOOD information hurts your feelings you better yell ouch because if you post bad info AND I know better I will say so. I would EXPECT you to do the same. That is NOT questioning anyones credentials, thats addressing an error. I did not return to that post as it wasn't something I was interesting in returning to. It had zero to do with a question you might have asked in an attempt to challenge me. In fact I find it rather humorous that you feel raising a NEW question somehow invalidates the fact you were wrong about the plate. We all make mistakes sometimes. As to latch plate spec's? I suggest you look it up if its applicable to you, it is not something I have a need to look into.....
FACT Motorcycles are built to comply with Fed standards, and the placement of everything from the tag bracket to the distance form center-line for the turn signals is outlined. So I am not wrong. Just because you can not find it; does not mean it does not exist. Simply that you are looking in the wrong place. The latch plate spec thing is just another example of Federal regs. If you can find the spec you will be in the right place, and until you are there; you are working from bad info.
You hold a position of influence due to your occupation, so people will follow your advice. When you claim this oil is best, you have a responsibility to back it up. 20 years experience as a mechanic isn't backing it up, give some spec's, facts, etc........
FACT I have customers come in with the complaint that there bike suddenly started experiencing clutch slipping. This happened soon after an oil change with a full synth oil. Change the oil back to the factory recommended semi synth. Within a couple of hundred miles the clutch quits slipping, and operates normally for thousands of miles. That is all the proof I need PERIOD. You might note it the blog by Lloyd he mentions that some experience unwanted, or unexpected results. That is because he has had the same experience as myself. Call him, and ask, but even then you will have to take his word. You know the word of a professional mechanic with 20 years of experience. No engineering results EXPIERIANCE
You know what my CR500 clutch was slipping and I changed oil after adding 3 teaspoons of MMO one time. Worked great for a while. Replacing the clutch worked better and was permanent fix.
I been riding, racing and fixing bikes for on 40 years, that doesn't make me anymore right all the time as it does you, get over it. I disagree with you, Victory oil isn't the best oil to run. Changing oil is NOT a fix for a slipping clutch. That's MY experience and opinion, you have yours. But you need to refrain from these pissing contests. It distracts from the intent of the post.....
The difference is that your CR500 was only fixed temporarily, and I am talking about bikes that go 10K plus miles with no more reported clutch issues. That tells me the bike is FIXED. My definition of fixed is simple. If it works in the manner that it was designed to work with no problems after a repair; it is fixed
Oh and nice hussle on the clutch prices, but folks can see for themselves, lol.... You ride safe Kev....
Love to hear how you figure this spin. I posted all of that stuff in your reality check earlier, and while the prices were from the top of my head. I'm betting they were all pretty damn close.
Try again pal; your still not impressing me |
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Cruiser
Posts: 63
| As this thread no longer is serving the community it is closed.
This is a reminder that the model specific sites are to share information, knowledge and expertise about the specific bikes and all aspects of them, not to argue who's right and whose wrong as everyone must come to their own conclusions.
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Vision Oil Viscosity
Discussion -> Vision Tech Q&A
