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Fountain Inn, SC United States |
http://www.startribune.com/local/92435489.html
Thanks to Ross Thacker for the link. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I think reality is setting in across all industries, but it is the big names that will hit the news and most will make an assumption based off personal feelings. The overall root of the problem is poor business decision across the years. One major problem with HD today is the interest they have to pay back to Mr. Buffett that is eating into the profits that was to help them regain stability. 15% interest makes for a hefty payment. Sounds like there will be more losers in this overall decision. I think this kind of thing happened to another king of the hill motorcycle company once, or was it twice, could have been three times, and may be four... who knows.
Edited by varyder 2010-04-29 2:46 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) |
New HD slogan:
Harley Davidson, The New Imported Motorcycle.
Let's hope this never happens though. That wouldn't be good for any motorcycle enthusiast.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Very interesting in light of the timelines alone.
http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/91584289.html
April 20, 2010 | Harley-Davidson Inc. is digging deep to reduce costs and boost profits - including taking actions that have made employees anxious.
Every part of the company, including management, is under review, Chief Executive Keith Wandell said Tuesday.
"In no way is it intended to be mean-spirited, but we are taking a look at where we have room for improvement. To a lot of employees, this represents change. And change is always difficult for folks to accept and go through. But, nonetheless, it's inevitable," Wandell said in an interview.
Harley announced that its first-quarter profit fell 71% to $33.3 million, or 14 cents a share, down from $117.3 million, or 50 cents, a year ago. Excluding losses from discontinued operations, Harley earned 29 cents a share.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot...
KEY DEVELOPMENTS FOR HARLEY-DAVIDSON INC (HOG)
Harley-Davidson, Inc. Approves Amendments Restated Articles of Incorporation; Approves Cash Dividend for the Second Quarter of 2010 Payable on June 18, 2010
04/24/2010
Harley-Davidson, Inc. held its annual shareholders meeting on April 24, 2010. During the meeting, shareholders approved amendments to the company's Restated Articles of Incorporation providing for the annual election of directors by eliminating the company's classified board structure, with its staggered three-year terms. The company announced that the Board of Directors approved a cash dividend of $0.10 per share for the second quarter of 2010, payable June 18, 2010 to holders of record of the Company's common stock on June 3, 2010.
234M shares outstanding = $23 million in dividends being paid out to investors while the business flounders, and the CEO takes home a paltry $835K in short term compensation and has another $1.4M in stock options.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/people.asp...
Lets see if I have this right; HD sales and their bottom line are bolstered by a federal stimulus / tax break for new car/motorcycle sales designed to help manufacturers weather the economic downturn and preserve JOBS, the board then votes a .10 per share dividend on a profit of .14 per share (71% of the profit) to investors (and the execs with stock and options) , while cutting jobs (1700 announced) and threatening to move the plant to a cheaper location.
In the words of Yakov Smirnoff - "What a country!"
Am I the only one irritated by this, or have I just become way too cynical and easily enraged in my old age?
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Man, it would be great if we could build them here in Texas! I would love to have the bikes built in San Antonio down by the 4 year old Toyoda plant!
I would love to ride up to the plant on my Vision and say..."Welcome to Texas!"
Come on down!
Edited by radioteacher 2010-04-29 4:39 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Very interesting, HD has another problem too, I noticed it at Daytona this year. I've been going down to Daytona since 1976, 12 twelve times total and every time on some type of Harley. This year everywhere I went I noticed there are very few young people on Harleys, a few young guys ( 20-25 ) on Sportsters or Superglides but most people ( probably 80% ) were on Baggers and were as old or older than me and I'm 53. The young kids mostly ride sportbikes, we know that will change as they get older, but unless HD modernizes their engines I could see them gravitating toward the Victoy's since a Hammer looks way cool and can be made to have 115 HP so easy. By the way all future trips will be on my Vision, my 2003 Roadglide is a spare now........... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | what you are really seeing is todays generation doesn't know loyality in the real things of life. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| It looks like normal business operation. Company says they will move, state and town gives them tax break, union gives the benefits back. Life goes on. I see a major problem here. HD is American made but it's also Milwaukee made how will this sit with loyal brand buyers?
Most all companies and fed and state governments need to learn how to live on less. Yes, Americans need to learn this as well. Big bikes are a luxury item. Like the utility company saying they need a 17% increase and everyone screams. They get a 7% increase where they really only needed a 3%. People think they got a good deal but the utilities know they did. If people can't manage their own money how can the watchdog big companies? |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | gee and i thought they just build a h/d meseum in milwaukee wisc guess they were not planing ahead |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| XRsteve - 2010-04-29 4:53 PM
Very interesting, HD has another problem too, I noticed it at Daytona this year. I've been going down to Daytona since 1976, 12 twelve times total and every time on some type of Harley. This year everywhere I went I noticed there are very few young people on Harleys, a few young guys ( 20-25 ) on Sportsters or Superglides but most people ( probably 80% ) were on Baggers and were as old or older than me and I'm 53. The young kids mostly ride sportbikes, we know that will change as they get older, but unless HD modernizes their engines I could see them gravitating toward the Victoy's since a Hammer looks way cool and can be made to have 115 HP so easy. By the way all future trips will be on my Vision, my 2003 Roadglide is a spare now...........
I think someone had a PDF of the Polaris / Victory market study involving the Vision development. I think there was something in the study that mentioned the average age of a Vic and harley rider. It may have also had many comparisons on income vs touring market, demographics of metrics vs harley vs Victory. My impression was Victory was looking at the younger age group, get them on bike, then you have a customer for the next 40 years. |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| Dumb crap almost bankrupted HD before, and they are at it again. Hmmm, our market is aging, so why don't we kill our forward thinking, design oriented, sports inspired Buell line ? instead of improving its exotic sports market.
Buell was starting to make a good show on the track when they went to the Rotax motor, but I wonder what would have happened if they used the V-rod motor?
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Cruiser
Posts: 184
Allen Park, MI | varyder - 2010-04-29 6:13 PM
what you are really seeing is todays generation doesn't know loyality in the real things of life.
fo sho.... |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | IndyVision - 2010-04-30 6:32 AM
I think someone had a PDF of the Polaris / Victory market study involving the Vision development. I think there was something in the study that mentioned the average age of a Vic and harley rider. It may have also had many comparisons on income vs touring market, demographics of metrics vs harley vs Victory. My impression was Victory was looking at the younger age group, get them on bike, then you have a customer for the next 40 years.
That report is at the bottom of our Downloads page: http://www.vision-riders.com/downloads.asp |
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Cruiser
Posts: 156
dinwiddie, va | I'm 26, and very loyal to victory. I am an hd and vic certified tech. First time I sat on a victory I wanted to get rid of my hd. I have been bad mouthing them ever since!!! There is alot of loyalty in young people, they just go through phases like everyone. Obviously the young thing is sportbikes, just like I was. But now I want comfort and style and have the 8ball vision. Victory is where its at. Let us young people get to the age of being more loyal! Some of the guys just like being uncomfortable and going fast for a while.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | not really the target of the comment. overall folks used to do a lot of things because of what grandpa, dad or uncle did there was a lot of sticktoitivenss (I think that's a word). While there are still those circles of loyalty to anything, riding, or riding a brand, work, etc. that circle is much smaller than it was, IMHO. It's one of those things that is hard to describe, and if you feel the need to defend, you are not the target. The target would say "wad dat mean yo?"
To highlight that further, in the business world loyality means nothing, and the business world is structured in such a way it encourages it to the point that careers may change many times, as well as companies through out a persons lifetime. It was relatively a small sect of our society, today it is the majority. So when it comes to riding, some folks will phase the racey bikes then off to the cruisers, but they were loyal to riding. Many of the so call loyal to HD crowd don't even know why they are loyal to it, but they defend it, some how.
Okay, I said something, but I'll figure out what it was later, more yard work.... hmmm who's working on my bike? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Central Pennsylvania | This is the same act that corporate HD pulled at the York, Pa. assembly plant last year. They said they were going to move to another state, couldn't keep making the larger bikes here. The governor put together a package of tax incentives, and the union agreed to permanent job cuts, along with some other concessions, and HD stayed in York. The people here needed the jobs and were willing to accept the concessions to keep them. Harley has since then outsourced a lot of the smaller parts assembly work as well as closing the plating shop, probably getting that work done in China.
They cut their manufacturing costs, decontent the Road Glide, and give it a price increase. Typical corporate greed, responsible to their share holders first. Harley has been around a long time, I hope they can survive this rough patch, I still won't buy one, but it would be a shame to lose another American icon. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 99
Cold lake Alberta | Well said!
nightvision - 2010-04-30 3:28 PM
I'm 26, and very loyal to victory. I am an hd and vic certified tech. First time I sat on a victory I wanted to get rid of my hd. I have been bad mouthing them ever since!!! There is alot of loyalty in young people, they just go through phases like everyone. Obviously the young thing is sportbikes, just like I was. But now I want comfort and style and have the 8ball vision. Victory is where its at. Let us young people get to the age of being more loyal! Some of the guys just like being uncomfortable and going fast for a while.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | nightvision: Glad to hear your take on things. Alot of MC riders your age are still into the Busa or ZX14 crowd and that's cool, You learned alot quicker than me that riding comfortable and in style is just as cool as having the fastest bikes out there. I got my first bagger when I was 46 and now I just love the experience of riding and enjoying taking trips. I still have my Roadglide as a spare but the Vision is my primary ride, I also have a 116 HP Sportster when I want to go out and blast around but it't like riding an earthquake 30 minutes at a time........ |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | HD has been trying to get the local economy to acomodate their needs for some time now. This is just another attempt by them to get the atention of the unions. Specilation has been rampent about HD moving to a non union state that would cut them huge tax breaks for at least 5 years. As far as I have heard. Tn. is way up in the running, and though a state income tax free state. Tx was passed on because of logistics |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I laugh when I read HD threads on a Victory forum, not sure why but I find it humorous. I agree that HD is looking to gain some tax breaks and it all plays into collective bargaining.
I'd have thought it more interesting to read about Victory stopping production and shipment of bikes to it's dealers, for example the 8 Ball Vision, until it sells off some of the 11,000 leftovers from 09. Don't get me wrong you could order a bike, but you probably are not going to find one being shipped to your dealer to sit on the showroom floor awaiting a sale (unless they already have one). Now that would interest me. Harley, not so much. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada | WOW.... Polaris , Victory is doing well.....1st quarter up by 83%
Sales of the On-Road division, which primarily consists of Victory motorcycles, increased 83 percent during the first quarter of 2010 when compared to the same period in 2009. This marks the 2nd straight quarter of market share gains and retail sales growth for Victory and reflects the acceptance of the new model year 2010 motorcycles including the new Cross Country? and Cross Roads? touring models. The heavyweight cruiser and touring motorcycle industry remained weak during the quarter, but Victory continued to benefit from aggressive and innovative efforts to accelerate growth. Victory motorcycles had strong retail sales during the 2010 first quarter, increasing in the mid-teens percent range in North America compared to the first quarter last year, resulting in market share gains for the quarter. North American dealer inventory of Victory motorcycles declined 25 percent in the 2010 first quarter compared to 2009 comparable levels. During the 2010 first quarter, Polaris added additional dealers for its electric powered low emission vehicle, the Polaris Breeze?, to further penetrate the master planned community market segment.
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | trying to bust the union shop workers |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | http://www.nbc40.net/view_story.php?id=13092 more to the Harley story.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 52
The Great Northwet | "I laugh when I read HD threads on a Victory forum, not sure why but I find it humorous. I agree that HD is looking to gain some tax breaks and it all plays into collective bargaining.
I'd have thought it more interesting to read about Victory stopping production and shipment of bikes to it's dealers, for example the 8 Ball Vision, until it sells off some of the 11,000 leftovers from 09. Don't get me wrong you could order a bike, but you probably are not going to find one being shipped to your dealer to sit on the showroom floor awaiting a sale (unless they already have one). Now that would interest me. Harley, not so much."
I too wonder when we're gonna start hearing more about the Victory decisions. It's great to go to a Fuel It demo ride but then to hear that the dealers are getting NO MORE X bikes or Visions the rest of this year? WTF? Why bother getting people all excited and even ready to buy and then tell them "you can buy one of these bikes that you don't want but the one you do want won't be available until next year"? And this decision being made at the beginning of riding season?
I've stopped talking about the new bikes to interested friends because I don't want to end the discussion with "but you can't get one now cause they ain't makin any for a while"
Dissapointing. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | who knows their ploy, it sounds to me it is the anticipation thing. I heard about the Vision in February '07, had a poster at work by my desk of the Vision in March of '07 and the first one I even saw in person was in Sept '07. I bought my '08 in November of '07 and it was well worth the wait. I won't say I lucked out, but mine was an early order by another rider who back out when it came in. I had a deposit on one in October, but was not going to see it at the earliest until May of '08, but that changed when mine came open to buy.
I don't know if all that makes sense, but one thing for sure none of the manufacturers want to over-produce and have excess inventory. I also see it as a way for those that are itching to buy into another model on the floor or over produced model to clear out the inventory. Then again, I might be talking out of my head as usual. |
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OT: Harley to make a hard decision
