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Tourer
Posts: 457
Green Bay, WI United States |  There are five segments on Victory vs Harley done by Mike the owner of Arizona Victory. I just finished watching all five and they are very informative about the Freedom motor and the last segment talks about the Vsion. Check it out.
Ride hard, ride fast, but above all - ride safe....
Wildman |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Here's the link to #1 of 5. (You can click on the rest of them once on YouTube.) Wow, the more I learn, the more I shake my head. Thanks 8-Ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGkFPUeNUqc |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | MIke does a great job of pointing out things most of us would overlook. Any wagers on whether his friend ended up with a Harley? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I love my Victory Vision, and there are significant advances between the HD and Victory engines. I didn't watch the first 4 videos but in this one. Well it's a little misleading. ( Everybody butters they're own bread ) Couple of things that aren't quite accutrate. First after an hour of riding on the highway the temp in the inner primary will be the same all over. Hopefully the stator in the Victory is just better than HD's, but 3 inches outboard ain't gonna do nothing for temps. The heat is being generated in the combustion chamber and works it's way down from there. ALSO the thing about the chain drive vs gear drive. We all know the Victory clunks way louder than any other motrcycle any of us has ever owned including Harleys. ( reference a hundred post on this site )
That beng said: yeah the Victory is a way more modern engine The plain big end bearings, one piece crank, side by side rods, OHC 4V heads, massive finning for cooling, dual downdraft induction, all better. But some of this stuff in THIS video, well sounds like KOOL-AID to me.......... |
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Central Wisconsin | XRsteve - 2010-11-20 8:49 AM ... Well it's a little misleading. ( Everybody butters they're own bread ) Couple of things that aren't quite accutrate. First after an hour of riding on the highway the temp in the inner primary will be the same all over. Hopefully the stator in the Victory is just better than HD's, but 3 inches outboard ain't gonna do nothing for temps. The heat is being generated in the combustion chamber and works it's way down from there. ...
But some of this stuff in THIS video, well sounds like KOOL-AID to me.......... +1 XRsteve, I think he over stated himself in the first video, by saying Victory has no stator failures.
Thanks 8-Ball ... I enjoyed the reassuring videos. 
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | XRsteve - 2010-11-20 9:49 AM
I love my Victory Vision, and there are significant advances between the HD and Victory engines. I didn't watch the first 4 videos but in this one. Well it's a little misleading. ( Everybody butters they're own bread ) Couple of things that aren't quite accutrate. First after an hour of riding on the highway the temp in the inner primary will be the same all over. Hopefully the stator in the Victory is just better than HD's, but 3 inches outboard ain't gonna do nothing for temps. The heat is being generated in the combustion chamber and works it's way down from there. ALSO the thing about the chain drive vs gear drive. We all know the Victory clunks way louder than any other motrcycle any of us has ever owned including Harleys. ( reference a hundred post on this site )
That beng said: yeah the Victory is a way more modern engine The plain big end bearings, one piece crank, side by side rods, OHC 4V heads, massive finning for cooling, dual downdraft induction, all better. But some of this stuff in THIS video, well sounds like KOOL-AID to me..........
Steve, you said things that I didn't know how to say. I still feel I'm on the new side of this motorcycle thing, but I always knew what I wanted. I've only ridden one Harley in my life and thought it was okay, and cool, and after about an hour I understood from the bias standpoint why bikers were regarded as a tough crowd.
After watching the video and reading other rants as well as giving them, however, I'm starting to feel like I need to withdraw, as we all ride and face the hazards, but each has their own reasons to ride and what they ride. I've heard many discussions of our bad stators, and our clunky transmissions and to do the video like Victory is way superior in that department irks me.
I'm a strong follower of the Victory brand, but my reasons are beyond the nuisances that separate it from Harley. The saddle and the engineering of the ride is what I focus on and the Vision is the ticket for that. I also will stand with the dependability is amazingly refreshing, but I don't have to do it by knocking another, it all speaks for itself. I personally cannot afford Harley, not because of the sticker price, but the maintenance cost. I base this off of friends that own newer Harley and that is their number one complaint, cost of ownership in maintenance and service, just for normal stuff. I won't knock them though because if the day ever comes, I plan on owning an Indian, and I know I would I could face the same thing but for me it would be worth the cost.
I believe we can still promote the Victory brand without putting down the others, especially with things that can be disputed.
Edited by varyder 2010-11-20 9:36 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | You'll never hear me make fun of any other bike with a clunky tranny! (Or headlight bulb replacement.) |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I knew the honest people would agree. A fact is a fact............... |
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | These were great videos from a learning perspective. From what I got out of the videos is Harely's engine need more maintenance by design. This design feature builds a strong dealership network....i.e. you always getting repairs done. So, you can push you brand harder, show the new models...etc. Victory is coming from behind in Motorcycles. So they were able to focus just on building a bike from scratch. And they did one hell of a job! I notice that most Victory Dealers sell other bikes. I don't think most Harley dealers do. I never rode a Harley and never will. Just like I don't wear Nike. You are paying more for the brand than you are for a great engineering of a bike.
From a Marketing prespective Harley is king and that give it the flexibility to produce decent bikes at a high cost. Victory.....great bikes at a great cost!!
These videos will have a bias since it was created by a Victory dealer...duh! It would be cool to go head to head with this Victory dealer and a Harely
Edited by adirondacks 2010-11-20 12:48 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| adirondacks - 2010-11-20 12:47 PM
These were great videos from a learning perspective. From what I got out of the videos is Harely's engine need more maintenance by design. This design feature builds a strong dealership network....i.e. you always getting repairs done. So, you can push you brand harder, show the new models...etc. Victory is coming from behind in Motorcycles. So they were able to focus just on building a bike from scratch. And they did one hell of a job! I notice that most Victory Dealers sell other bikes. I don't think most Harley dealers do. I never rode a Harley and never will. Just like I don't wear Nike. You are paying more for the brand than you are for a great engineering of a bike.
From a Marketing prespective Harley is king and that give it the flexibility to produce decent bikes at a high cost. Victory.....great bikes at a great cost!!
These videos will have a bias since it was created by a Victory dealer...duh! It would be cool to go head to head with this Victory dealer and a Harely
Hats off to Mike and victory. I was shocked to see harley has some 60 gaskets to our 8 and the primary chain is so old only my dad knows about it. I had a screaming eagle dresser and at 23 thousand my chain adjuster did go out and it tuck the oil pump with it along with tree lifters. As for the stator its all up to who makes it but drowning it in oil is way better in my eyes then covering it up with a cover of magnets. I would have bought my vision sooner if I would have seen these videos first.
Thank You for posting this. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
not far from hustler wisconsin | i have owned many bikes and i really like Harley the sound the feel the torque. its different and its good. they are a old design trying to be problem free and they have done a good job with the twin cam. they are costly to own and service. welcome to hobbies. if you think bikes are bad dont get into boating.
i love my victories too. i have had 3 of them now and enjoyed every one. they are not harleys. comparing is kind of not fair as they are not the same. plus harley is an institution more than a bike. the make more on motorclothes and shit than bikes i bet. and no matter how much one of their dealers screw one of their diehards they will just go back and buy another bike anyway. seen it a hundred times. it takes a little to get off dead center and i think victory had done that. a vtwin that is asskicken and reliable they are just babies in the mc industry lets see what the next ten years bring....
i like the videos too.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| I have owned Harleys before as well.....Wibiker said it well....it is a institution. I am fully hooked now on the superior handling and power/TQ of the Victories. I have done trips, 7k in 2 weeks and cut up the twisties like I never could on a Harley. But having said that, if you are looking for a looker, and sound bite, something to shine up and park in front of the bar grill (i am not saying that a bad thing, thats all some people want weather they can admit it or not) the HD is your ride. I will not be going back to HD after finally seeing what it is to have a performing functional big v-twin bike.
I dont even want to thing of the $$$$$ i would have shelled out if I put 36000 miles on a Ultra classic like I have my Vision....OUCH! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
Perry Hall, MD | Thomas - 2010-11-20 10:18 AM
I think he over stated himself in the first video, by saying Victory has no stator failures.
>
Have not watched the video yet, but +1 on the stator comment since I'm waiting on a replacement for my 08 now. Then again Victory tells my dealer that they have not seen another with the symptoms I'm having.
OK, just watched the stator segment and find it interesting that my dealer wants me to plan on being in early enough to let the engine cool for 1.5 hrs before they do the replacement. Maybe the HD would take 3 hr. to cool down.
Regardless wouldn't trade the VV.
Edited by lennyb 2010-11-20 4:49 PM
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Central Wisconsin | lennyb - 2010-11-20 4:40 PM Thomas - 2010-11-20 10:18 AM I think he over stated himself in the first video, by saying Victory has no stator failures.
> Have not watched the video yet, but +1 on the stator comment since I'm waiting on a replacement for my 08 now. Then again Victory tells my dealer that they have not seen another with the symptoms I'm having. OK, just watched the stator segment and find it interesting that my dealer wants me to plan on being in early enough to let the engine cool for 1.5 hrs before they do the replacement. Maybe the HD would take 3 hr. to cool down. Regardless wouldn't trade the VV.Hopefully it will be warranty work. Just curious, do you know if the R/R plug was or is melted on your bike?
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | as far as the trany being clucky like the harley. I feel im one of the lucky ones i guess? my trany is very smooth and quiet and im on a 08 model.. now i DO have the trany 4th gear whine thats for sure, but as far as shifting, nothing was as noisey as my kawasaki was! Holy crap that bikes sounded like a hammer was hitting the cases when you would but it in gear at a light.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | A very interesting set of videos. I am thinking about watching them again and making a list of the differences. I did learn alot from them and want to thank Mike for making them.
To me the shocker was the Oil Pressure at idle. I would like to see that displayed using pressure gauges on a 2011 106 Freedom and a 2011 96 Twin Cam engine.
I was surprised at the origin of the HP and Torque numbers in the videos. The HD numbers were from the rear tire....The Victory numbers were from the engine crank shaft.
Once again they could have used the same dyno with the same settings to show the difference at the rear tire.
First run a stock 2011 Twin Cam 96 HD
Second a stock 2011 CVO SE 110
Third a 2011 SE 110 engine with cams. air box, pipes and fuel controller
Fourth run a stock 2011 106 Victory engine
Fifth run a factory 2011 Hammer 106 engine (it is enhanced and is supposed to make 97 HP at the crank)
Sixth run a 2011 106 Victory engine with Lloyd's cams, Rev extended controller, air box mods, S1L1 pipes and fuel controller
This would be a fair comparison.
Show me don't tell me. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
Perry Hall, MD | Thomas,
Not a clue as to what the wrench has found other than he replaced the regulator and after allowing the bike to come up to temperature the charging system failed. He contacted the factory they scratched their heads, had him change out the battery (brand new) and test again with the same results, and then advised that it was a stator failure.
Have to say I'm getting really good at paying attention to make certain that I don't stall out. No room in the trunk though with the spare battery, jumpers, charger, and extension cord.
Very glad to have the 5 yr warranty - not sure if it will cover the oil change though.
Edited by lennyb 2010-11-21 7:04 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | radioteacher - 2010-11-21 6:43 AM
A very interesting set of videos. I am thinking about watching them again and making a list of the differences. I did learn alot from them and want to thank Mike for making them.
To me the shocker was the Oil Pressure at idle. I would like to see that displayed using pressure gauges on a 2011 106 Freedom and a 2011 96 Twin Cam engine.
I was surprised at the origin of the HP and Torque numbers in the videos. The HD numbers were from the rear tire....The Victory numbers were from the engine crank shaft.
Once again they could have used the same dyno with the same settings to show the difference at the rear tire.
First run a stock 2011 Twin Cam 96 HD
Second a stock 2011 CVO SE 110
Third a 2011 SE 110 engine with cams. air box, pipes and fuel controller
Fourth run a stock 2011 106 Victory engine
Fifth run a factory 2011 Hammer 106 engine (it is enhanced and is supposed to make 97 HP at the crank)
Sixth run a 2011 106 Victory engine with Lloyd's cams, Rev extended controller, air box mods, S1L1 pipes and fuel controller
This would be a fair comparison.
Show me don't tell me.
where did it say those HP numbers were from a rear tire and a crank? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | lennyb - 2010-11-21 7:03 AM
Thomas,
Not a clue as to what the wrench has found other than he replaced the regulator and after allowing the bike to come up to temperature the charging system failed. He contacted the factory they scratched their heads, had him change out the battery (brand new) and test again with the same results, and then advised that it was a stator failure.
Have to say I'm getting really good at paying attention to make certain that I don't stall out. No room in the trunk though with the spare battery, jumpers, charger, and extension cord.
Very glad to have the 5 yr warranty - not sure if it will cover the oil change though.
warranty doesnt cover fluids. now if your dealer wants to be nice maybe they will cover it. but i wouldnt hold my breathe. |
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Central Wisconsin | lennyb - 2010-11-21 7:03 AM Thomas, Not a clue as to what the wrench has found other than he replaced the regulator and after allowing the bike to come up to temperature the charging system failed. He contacted the factory they scratched their heads, had him change out the battery (brand new) and test again with the same results, and then advised that it was a stator failure. Have to say I'm getting really good at paying attention to make certain that I don't stall out. No room in the trunk though with the spare battery, jumpers, charger, and extension cord. Very glad to have the 5 yr warranty - not sure if it will cover the oil change though. Lennyb, Did you notice your voltmeter drop before the failure?
I too have the five warranty, was thinking of during some electrical mods but need to be careful as not to void out any warranty work.
Would be interesting to see a pic of the bad stator. 
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Arkainzeye - 2010-11-21 7:35 AM
where did it say those HP numbers were from a rear tire and a crank?
I just went looking for that information and did not find it.
The 97 HP from the "Hammer" Freedom 106 engine is a engine shaft number not from the rear tire as shipped from the factory. The extra five HP over the regular 106 is due to a different factory cam. This engine is standard for the Hammer and the Jackpot only....not the Vision or the Cross bikes.
The regular 106 is listed as 92 HP (crank). This makes about 81 to 86 HP at the back tire depending on exhaust options, map loaded and luck of the draw on the engine.
Now that the bike is basically stock with exhaust and map you can add the real performance stuff.
Like......Lloyd's cams, Fuel Controller, Intake Plate and modified rev limiter (ECM) and for a few out there nitrous or a tubro charger.
The HD numbers are consistent with rear tire dyno numbers that I have seen in the past.
To be fair, the comparison should be done on the same equipment and power taken from the same place.
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I just found a Kevinx post that stated the following about the 97 HP numbers from Victory.
"Those numbers are taken at the crank, and are about 14% higher then if measured at the wheel."
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i agree. if he is going to compare be fair.. i didnt know he was judging the hd based on rear wheel numbers and the victory on crank. he has to know he will get bashed for that to NO end... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | On one hand, I love being informed and knowing as much as I can about other bikes. On the other hand, all the stuff Mike talks about in the video has nothing to do with why a guy will buy a Harley over a Victory. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the other guy in the video ended up getting the Street Glide. Performance, reliability, handling, engineering, tip-overs, (the list goes on) has nothing to do with why people pick Harley. It just amazes me how much those guys pay for a stock bike that needs so much work ($$$) right off the bat. I would be very interested to see how money and maintenance VaRyder would have shelled out on a bone-stock Ultra over the last three years/85,000 miles.
Edited by SongFan 2010-11-21 10:05 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Amen! |
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VICTORY VS HARLEY SEGMENTS ON U-TUBE
