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Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell
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SongFan
Posted 2007-09-18 4:42 PM (#401)
Subject: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Visionary

Posts: 3204
Memphis

Now that the frustration with delivery dates has reached a fever pitch, I'm trying to figure out what Tom Tiller (CEO Polaris) and Mark Blackwell (Head of Victory) are thinking. If you look at all of the press releases and articles written about the Vision since the beginning of the year it has been very methodical and incremental. First they showed concept drawings. (This, along with the release of the Vision 800 Concept bike lead to a lot of confusion about what the "Vision" really was.) Then they showed the actual Vision prototype to the press but gave no specifics. The reporters could only guess/assume about the engine size and transmission. Then they took everybody on a two day ride in July and the lid blew off in the press. All that was left was delivery to the fanatical pre-paying customers.

It's a lot like being one of the geeks who lines up outside the Apple store waiting for the latest release from Steve Jobs. Apple has a very methodical marketing plan that just shows peeks behind the curtain until the very day it is released. Even the Apple store employees are kept in the dark until the unit actually arrives. The problem is that Apple doesn't give a three month window to fudge with. When they post a release date, it is to the hour. You can camp outside the store if you want to and you know that when the doors open, you will get what you have waited for.

Victory has promised a "Fall Release". Being the literal geek that I am, I looked it up. Fall 2007 starts on Sept 23rd (the Autumnal Equinox). Winter (the Winter Solstice) is Dec 22nd. So, technically, Victory doesn't have to deliver a single bike until Sept 23rd and has until Dec 21st to keep their promise.

I hate lawyers and I hate splitting legalese hairs. When Victory says Fall Release I stupidly assumed that I would get to ride a new Vision during the Fall. Fall, to me, has always been when school starts back and before December. September/October are the prime months and November is when it starts getting cold. The best two months of riding weather for 90% of the country are here.

There is nothing we can do about this except vent our frustration with their system. Tom and Mark, Don't give release dates that you can't/won't keep! Figure out a way to deliver your product so that everyone in the loop knows what to expect. If you are working out technical problems, just say so. Don't leave your dealers and customers cut off like a bunch of worthless hacks. I am totally embarrassed by my lack of knowing what is going on with the bike. My family members and friends at work have listened to me hype this thing for the past two months and now I (and everyone else I know associated with Victory) are in a vacuum. The release dates that keep getting slid back with no explanation from the company are the worst kind of torture. The guys who are buying this bike are not young kids to be trifled with. You guys have marketed this thing to go after 50 year old men who have 20 years of riding experience. How about treating us like that's exactly who we are!

On behalf of your Dealers and customers, please stop jerking us around and tell us what is going on.

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g1nomad
Posted 2007-09-18 5:17 PM (#402 - in reply to #401)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Tourer

Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton
SongFan - 2007-09-18 4:42 PM

On behalf of your Dealers and customers, please stop jerking us around and tell us what is going on.



As a Southerner, I say let the Northerners get theirs 1st. It is a ride all Winter here, not all
Summer.

Am I a nice guy? Why such a Martyr? If I can't get delivery until December, I might get my
Chrome forks.

Herb
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TowJam
Posted 2007-09-18 6:09 PM (#405 - in reply to #401)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 21
D/FW Texas
While having to wait with no firm ETA sucks, one would hope that the delay is due to the factory working out some last minute bugs that may have been discovered as the demo bikes got more miles on them. I would see this as a positive thing - as opposed letting some known issues go out the door in order to meet a self-imposed ship date.

If you think it's frustrating for the customers, think how p***ed off the dealers must be getting.
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SongFan
Posted 2007-09-18 7:07 PM (#407 - in reply to #401)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Visionary

Posts: 3204
Memphis

I don't mind delays in order to fix problems and get it right on the front end. Just don't give out a proposed shipping date if the bike isn't ready yet. All I ask is to be treated like a valued customer (or Dealer) and kept in the loop. Communication is the key to minimizing rumors and making us feel like we count. It's one thing to wait for an i-Phone or the latest Harry Potter book but these are $22,000, flagship motorcycles we are talking about and Victory claims that they want to be the best motorcycle company in the world. If so, prove it. We're grown adults. We know stuff happens. We want more than anything to brag our brains out about this whole experience. Victory needs to be pro-active and head the rumor mill off at the pass. Let the dealers know what is going on so they can be informed. Mark Blackwell makes a big deal out of trying to release one ground-breaking model each year and he needs to come up with a delivery system to match the hype. I know they are a young motorcycle company but Polaris has been building and hyping high performance machines for 50 years. This mentality of a three month window with a bunch of false starts just because "that's the way they've always done it" doesn't wash.

Talk to us, guys. We can handle it, I promise. I know you want to be the best and get this right. Please help us make you look good. It will pay off.

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CoolHandLuke
Posted 2007-09-18 7:21 PM (#408 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Iron Butt

Posts: 849
, FL United States
I agree completely.I put up $1000 in April so I could be the first to own what I think is the most beautiful motorcycle ever built. I'm getting a little pi$$ed off that my dealer can't tell me when my bike is going to be delivered. I know it's not my dealer's fault because they REALLY DON'T KNOW! I'm not ready to say "forget it" & buy something else. I want my Vision and I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!
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luzzy
Posted 2007-09-18 8:10 PM (#409 - in reply to #401)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Cruiser

Posts: 129
Coastal , NJ
Looks like they are early with their promise. Alabama Victory has a Cherry Red Vision on its way(see the VMC Thread) to them which means the shipping has begun....late summer.

Edited by luzzy 2007-09-18 8:15 PM
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badnvegas
Posted 2007-09-18 9:34 PM (#411 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Cruiser

Posts: 175
Colorado
I was told the first bike hit Colorado August 27th......I am still trying to find the owner, narrrowed it down to the dealer though
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Dirtybubble
Posted 2007-09-19 4:29 AM (#412 - in reply to #409)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


The Poconos
luzzy - 2007-09-18 8:10 PM

Looks like they are early with their promise. Alabama Victory has a Cherry Red Vision on its way(see the VMC Thread) to them which means the shipping has begun....late summer.


Always the optimist......I like that quality in you Mark.
I'm starting to get the fever again. I could really use the heated grips and seat in the sub 40 degree ride in the mornings
..............Room-A-Zoom-Zoom!!
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RedRider
Posted 2007-09-19 6:16 AM (#413 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Visionary

Posts: 1350
"If so, prove it. We're grown adults. We know stuff happens." From your letter and follow up posts this does not seem to be your case. As an adult I don't think when a company says "fall" it has to be the first day. As a designer/engineer/hands on person I know all to well how 3rd party vendors make a project go late because they promised a delivery and when that day comes their parts are no where in sight.
We had it happen with an $8,000 door. The vendor kept saying they would get the parts to us early and then the ship date came and went. Now the customer is waiting and the vendor said they could do it but they jumped the price $1000. Now what do I tell the customer? He can have his door late for more money? He can have it even later after I find a new vendor to make the pieces? Now that it's done and the customer loves the design we plan to make the parts in house but did not have the machine open to do the prototype. Of course our customer rep was young fellow that understood how things happen.

Blizzard games come out late just about every game. Can you or your children tell us the last time Blizzard had a bad game?

Understanding is something we develop as we mature. Whining is something kids do. Because you bragged to your family and friends about the bike and when you were getting it (what did you say? The first day of fall the new bike will be in your driveway?) instead of just saying you can't wait for it to show up does not make Victory the bad guy.

I like to have the product well made when I receive it and I don't have to be the first one on my block to get it. So far both my Victorys have been above and beyond what I expected from a "young" motorcycle company. Since I am not the kind that has to be the first one to own something I will be waiting to buy my Vision after the vendor on the chrome forks get all set.
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SongFan
Posted 2007-09-19 10:46 AM (#414 - in reply to #401)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Visionary

Posts: 3204
Memphis

The whole point of this post is communication. Victory is announcing ship dates and then sliding them with no explanation. If I get a house custom built, I don't expect it to be done on time and on budget. I do expect my builder to keep me informed of what is going on. If the custom $8,000 door promised on a certain date (even if that date is early) doesn't arrive, do I have a right to know why?

This isn't even about my own personal situation. I have always told everyone around me "Fall". I don't expect to see my bike until November and I'm the only one with money down on a Vision in Memphis. This is not about a video game release. These guys have put thousands of dollars down on the bike of their dreams. Some have had deposits down since last spring, sight unseen. We believe the hype. We trust the company.

All we want is to be kept informed. Dealers have told prospective customers "It popped up on my computer, I should have one in here next week for you to look at." Then the date gets slid a week, with no explanation. Then slid again. Guys waiting for specific bikes have had the same story. If the dates get slid, just tell us why. The trunks for the Tour are back-ordered? Chrome fork problems? Antenna problems? Certain colors will get released first? Certain dealers have priority? The list goes on and on and the rumor mill flies.

I know the bike is going to be great. I know it will be worth it. I just wish Victory would do a better job of communicating in the mean time. If they had explained why the dates keep getting pushed back, I would have never posted this.

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Dirtybubble
Posted 2007-09-19 11:25 AM (#415 - in reply to #414)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


The Poconos
SongFan - 2007-09-19 10:46 AM

We trust the company.

All we want is to be kept informed.



+1
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SongFan
Posted 2007-09-19 11:48 AM (#416 - in reply to #401)
Subject: RE: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Visionary

Posts: 3204
Memphis

One last point and I'm done. As long as Victory says "Fall Release" I have a three month expectation. If I want to start hyperventilating on the first day of Fall and chomp at the bit for the next three months, that's my choice. If I want to relax and know that it will be here in the next three months, that's ok also.

As soon as Victory says "We have a proposed ship date of Sep 12th on your bike." everything changes. I expect the bike to ship on Sep 12th and have it arrive at the dealer within a reasonable amount of time (within two weeks). If Victory changes that date, I want to know why.

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Miles
Posted 2007-09-19 12:51 PM (#417 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Tourer

Posts: 547
Mount Vernon, WA United States
Anytime a bike company makes a "release" date, if I'm interested, I visit a dealer for a History lesson. Since Victory's inception, I believe "FALL" has been their release date. The '05 bikes (due Fall '04) didn't hit the street until APRIL '05!!!! but I believe that was the exception. In general, the bikes start showing up end of September, early October, and mark my words... They will run out (oversold) in January, announce that fact in February, and the 2nd run will be available starting in April. I could be wrong, but if memory serves me, that it what happened with the Vegas and the Hammer. I think it's nice that they do take care of the folks that order bikes site unseen FIRST.
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wrr1home
Posted 2007-10-19 8:05 PM (#944 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Cruiser

Posts: 196
I agree, Victory should communicate at least to the dealers. I, too, have had my grand in the mix since April, and I got one ship date. This date comes and goes and a week later, i'm told my new ship date is still a week away, with no explanation of WHY!

It is very disheartning to hear, I don't know why but this is what shows on the computer. To me, there is a reason for this extension, I just want to know what it is!
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okthenbye
Posted 2007-10-23 12:23 AM (#994 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Cruiser

Posts: 266
Stockton, Ca.
This communication thing seems to be a common concern. How does a company show their gratitude to loyal deposit customers? I also have had my 1000 down since April so what do they do? Send basic bikes out that nobody ordered, make the deposit customers wait for their premiums! I think this young company needs to learn some mannors and treat the loyal customers right. This will be my second Victory. All I want is to know what is happening and when will I receive my bike..

When I order a new car I get a tracking number and am able to follow the progress. Not knowing anything and having the dealer know less than me is really a frustration. I am still reeling from the wrenching feeling I had when I was called in to pick up my new Vision and found the wrong model was waiting. No Premiums. After a 60 mile drive it was a disappointment that will be difficult to forget. I wish Victory would get their act together.
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cjnoho
Posted 2007-10-23 1:33 AM (#997 - in reply to #401)
Subject: Re: Open letter to Tom Tiller and Mark Blackwell


Visionary

Posts: 1324
So Cal
An explanation is all I want. I have heard so many at this point I would'nt believe it anyway. I have gotten more info here than on any company website. Any wonder why the rest of the world is surpassing this country. If your in the business of making consumer products customer satisfaction should be a top priority. If polaris does'nt wise up they're never going to make it.
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