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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| My '11 speakers also say Rev.02. In my case I'm running without the trunk so I only have one speaker per side. Maybe in that case if the speakers with a trunk are wired in series 4 ohm would be correct with one. I'm still curious why Kicker calls for 4 ohms when they should know since they've been involved with OE. When you spoke with the Kicker tech did he say why they are now calling for 4 ohm speakers?
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| marcparnes - 2011-09-02 1:03 PM
My '11 speakers also say Rev.02. In my case I'm running without the trunk so I only have one speaker per side. Maybe in that case if the speakers with a trunk are wired in series 4 ohm would be correct with one. I'm still curious why Kicker calls for 4 ohms when they should know since they've been involved with OE. When you spoke with the Kicker tech did he say why they are now calling for 4 ohm speakers?
Marc
Yes, for certain model year Harley's.... they don't make these things just for Victory.... and, according to the post I copied above, the channels on the Vision aren't left and right, they are front / back, so with the trunk off, the two front speakers are still on the same channel.... 2ohm + 2ohm = 4 ohm ....
Edited by Turk 2011-09-02 4:29 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Hmmm... doesn't sound right. If the two front speakers were on the same channel you wouldn't have stereo which we do. I think you also noted that the front and rear were wired in series. I wonder if that is possible since if they were wired in series and you unplugged the trunk like many of us have, there wouldn't be a circuit and no sound. Kinda like the old Xmas lights where one blew and the whole string went out. Makes more sense that they are wired in parallel so that each one will operate independently from the other. Also, the passenger has a separate volume control and if they were wired in series then lowering one would lower both. Gotta be parallel I think. I'm betting radioteacher and Kicker are correct and the original speakers are 4 ohm. radioteacher stated that checking the resistance across the speaker leads was not a correct way to measure impedance. I know he is right but I also found a couple of sites that say you can half-ass measure them this way to get the minimum impedance which would be 50-75% of the correct number. I don't know anything about radios so can't vouch for it but I did measure 3.5 ohms across the OE speakers which kind of validates what I read.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I emailed radiosound.com and asked them what ohm speakers they're using. I'll report back when I hear from them.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | From older posts on this topic......
joe schmoe - 2010-06-15 9:49 AM
...I Contacted Radio Sound the radio manufacturer, they told me their radio is rated at 4 Ohm IMPEDANCE.......The guy I spoke with at the Radio Sound, said that the (stock) radio put out 20 W per channel...
Jedi Jeff - 2010-07-01 12:29 PM
Just for reference, I contacted RadioSound for specs on the radio and speakers. Some of this info has already been stated in previous posts.
Vision Radio: 23 Watts per channel peak
Stock Victory Speakers: 4 ohm, 55 watt speakers with SPL sensitivity of 91dB
Take care
Edited by radioteacher 2011-09-02 10:21 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Perfect! Thank you for that.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| marcparnes - 2011-09-02 6:21 PM
... I wonder if that is possible since if they were wired in series and you unplugged the trunk like many of us have, there wouldn't be a circuit and no sound. Kinda like the old Xmas lights where one blew and the whole string went out. ...
Marc If the fronts and backs are on separate channels, then unplugging one channel only (ie. the trunk) would have no effect on the other channel, the front. And at the risk of repeating myself, Kicker did NOT make 4 0hm PS5250 speakers until just recently! All the ones Victory sells therefore MUST be the 2ohm version. That is according to their tech department.
Edited by Turk 2011-09-03 9:05 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I see your point that if all Kicker had available previously were 2 ohm speakers then that had to be what they were supplying as upgrades to Victory even though the OE speakers were 4 ohm. I've been reading a lot of the previous posts here regarding this issue and what I've taken from it is that using 2 ohm in place of 4 ohm could give more volume but less sound quality with the potential to damage the amp over the long run. Those are of course general observations and not necessarily particular to our bike. In other words, in this case maybe Vic determined that running 2 ohm wasn't going to hurt anything and since that was all that was available they decided to offer them. I installed the 4 ohm Kickers yesterday and I'm going for an extended ride tomorrow so I'll see how they sound on the freeway. The reason I changed the speakers was in an effort to increase the volume. I wear earplugs and have found that the radio sounds much, much better with earplugs than without. Without them the high pitched ambient noise makes it difficult for me to hear the radio. With them I can hear it perfectly but it requires a lot of volume. With the stock speakers full volume is just enough so I was hoping the Kickers would increase the volume enough to give a little margin with plugs in. I'll know for sure tomorrow.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Interested in getting your assessment after your ride..... how do they sound in the garage, quieter, louder, or the same? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Can't really say. I never really paid that much attention to the OE pair in the garage. I ran the new ones up just for the heck of it and the entire neighborhood probably heard them :-)
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| BTW, where did you get your 4ohm Kickers, direct from Victory, or elsewhere? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I got them here:
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I found these at bestbuy. I wonder if there the same speakers
1677245 Front Detail
Compare
$89.99
Free Shipping
Add To Cart
Kicker - KS 5-1/4" 2-Way Car Speakers with Polypropylene Cones (Pair)
Model: KS525 | SKU: 1677245
Handles up to 270 watts peak power (90 watts RMS); injection-molded polypropylene woofer cones; 3/4" Kaladex dome tweeters; santoprene rubber surrounds |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| john frey - 2011-09-03 11:44 AM
I found these at bestbuy. I wonder if there the same speakers
1677245 Front Detail
Compare
$89.99
Free Shipping
Add To Cart
Kicker - KS 5-1/4" 2-Way Car Speakers with Polypropylene Cones (Pair)
Model: KS525 | SKU: 1677245
Handles up to 270 watts peak power (90 watts RMS); injection-molded polypropylene woofer cones; 3/4" Kaladex dome tweeters; santoprene rubber surrounds
They seem to be different John. From the Kicker site:
http://www.kicker.com/ks_series
http://www.kicker.com/ps5250
Their MSRP for the KS525 is $99.95 and the PS5250 is $249.95
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I took a ride of about 200 miles yesterday including a fair bit of freeway. The reason I installed the Kickers was to get more volume and I can't say that happened. As a matter of fact they may be a slight bit lower in volume. I'm going to call Kicker tomorrow and see if the 2 ohm units might have been a better choice. So far a waste of time and money.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| marcparnes - 2011-09-05 2:28 PM
I took a ride of about 200 miles yesterday including a fair bit of freeway. The reason I installed the Kickers was to get more volume and I can't say that happened. As a matter of fact they may be a slight bit lower in volume. I'm going to call Kicker tomorrow and see if the 2 ohm units might have been a better choice. So far a waste of time and money.
Marc
For stock Vision radio's, I think the 2ohm is the way to go. But, if I ever install an amp, I will definitely get 4ohm speakers! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Certainly seems that way.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I just got off the phone with both Radio Sound and Kicker. The tech at Radio Sound confirmed that the OE speakers are 4 ohm which we already knew. He also said it was not a good idea to use 2 ohm and that they could definitely damage the radio. I then called Kicker and he stated that the speakers they supplied to Victory for their accessory program were in fact 4 ohm even though they didn't offer them aftermarket. I asked him about the volume issue and he said that the only way to increase the volume would be to install an amplifier. He said that installing 2 ohm could cause the radio to "shut down" if run at maximum volume. Riders here would certainly disagree with that statement. He said he was going to let the PR people know about the volume issue since they claim the volume is increased on their website.
So, that's the story. I may just reinstall the OE speakers and call it a day.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| marcparnes - 2011-09-06 8:28 AM
I just got off the phone with both Radio Sound and Kicker. The tech at Radio Sound confirmed that the OE speakers are 4 ohm which we already knew. He also said it was not a good idea to use 2 ohm and that they could definitely damage the radio. I then called Kicker and he stated that the speakers they supplied to Victory for their accessory program were in fact 4 ohm even though they didn't offer them aftermarket. I asked him about the volume issue and he said that the only way to increase the volume would be to install an amplifier. He said that installing 2 ohm could cause the radio to "shut down" if run at maximum volume. Riders here would certainly disagree with that statement. He said he was going to let the PR people know about the volume issue since they claim the volume is increased on their website.
So, that's the story. I may just reinstall the OE speakers and call it a day.
Marc
LOL... that's it, I'm not wasting any more money on individual speakers.... Next sound upgrade will be the Hawg Wired system.... hell, I've damned near spent that much money already between 2 sets of Kickers and a set of J&M's.... hindsight... geez.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| You know, twice burned and all that. I previously installed a set of J&Ms on my 2010 and even though they were 2 ohm it didn't improve it one bit. Why would I think this would've worked? I never learn :-(
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | LOL, don't be so down on yourselves. Your hindsights have saved a bunch of us a lot of $$$$$. Thank you, thank you! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| okie vision - 2011-09-06 6:38 AM
LOL, don't be so down on yourselves. Your hindsights have saved a bunch of us a lot of $$$$$. Thank you, thank you!
Well, that makes it all worthwhile.... NOT :-)
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| marcparnes - 2011-09-06 9:44 AM
okie vision - 2011-09-06 6:38 AM
LOL, don't be so down on yourselves. Your hindsights have saved a bunch of us a lot of $$$$$. Thank you, thank you!
Well, that makes it all worthwhile.... NOT :-)
Marc
+1 !! LOL If I knew then what I know now, I would have just opted for the Hawg Wired system, even though it's only two channel and doesn't do squat for the trunk speakers. But, I could relocate my Victory Kickers to the trunk with the Hawg Wired system up front. Would still have to get a separate amp (or pair of mono amps) for the rear.
Actually, I'll probably opt for that new bluetooth dongle, since I already have bluetooth speakers in my Nolan n103 helmet... yeah, that's the ticket !!!!
Edited by Turk 2011-09-06 10:21 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2026
Brighton, TN | Marc and all, having done a little sound system work in a past life as a hobby. So, only going on experiences. I have found that the better speakers normally don't get much louder at all, if ever. What you do wind up with is a speaker that is able to play a broader range of frequencies and sound better doing it. Normally, the ability to get MUCH louder when you stick an amp on them and sound more rock show like. At the price you paid and having used Kicker's before, dropping a small amp on them would get you the results you want, LOUD and CLEAR! What's not too like! You need one more piece and satisfaction all around. Most head units, be it stock or aftermarket will not push enough power for most mid-level speakers to be near their maximum output. Which is why you would amp it up? Comparing the two, Kicker or Hawgwired, the Kicker construction and quality would be hands down better by a long shot.
I am rambling, there are a few more thoughts on the matter. If I had it do at the moment, definitely the Kicker or Polk speakers and AMP them. Loud, LOUder, LOUDER, and sweeet serenity of audio ecstasy. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | A lot of the guys who claim to love their DYI speaker / stereo upgrades have added foam baffles, like these:
http://www.amazon.com/Brand-Installbay-Universal-Speaker-Baffles/dp...
Could a $15.00 pr add-on make that much difference? Smarter people than I claim it does. I took a semester of "Physics of Sound" in college (Nashville, home of guitars and a recording studio on every corner) and it appears to me to be smart money.
Too bad that I didn't learn enough in that class to use ear plugs before the hearing loss and the high pitched squealing started; or I might have a reason to spend a couple of hours installing them to find out.
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Kicker Uprade on new Visions
